Hi All
So getting the discussion started with a bit of a general question - what are you play groups like at deals?
Pretty much in our small group, we've same core dudes for like 10 years or so, deals are pretty much on an action by action basis; you rescue me, I support your next vote that kind of carry on. That's pretty much the way it's always been. Mostly also with everyone being experienced we kind of expect sensible (well in Greg's case sensible is more like predictable weirdness!) cross table behaviour. We also don't really beg help to live, if it's clear me being off the table is good for my cross tables allies then effort won't be wasted trying to talk someone into helping me.
I'm playing some JOL league games at the moment and there is some crazy deal cross table oust carry on, made worse by the dealing taking place without all parties at the table (so to speak). It's like worse than a tournament, I'd forgotten how bad some of the Europeans are when it comes to table talking. It's total VP dealing, you oust him and then I'll oust this dude. Is this sort of carry on normal in anyone's local groups? Or we just see some, not heaps, of it at tourneys?
S
I come from probably the most infamous play group in Australia when it comes to deals, Newcastle. We are synonymous for dealing, and for having the shiv nice and sharp when it comes time to 'end the arrangement'.
ReplyDeleteBut that opinion can be more than a little out of place. Sure we deal, some of us even break deals. But that doesn't mean that we all break deals, or that if a player breaks one that they will break every deal they make.
We deal in social play, we deal in tournament play. The game is as much about playing the cards in front of you as it is about playing your opponents. If you can make a deal from a position of weakness and turn it into a strength, then you are well on your way to a Game Win.
I consider table talk to be as vital a component to the game as the Master Phase for example. A game without dealing, or discussion, or threats, extortion and outright lying is just plain "send me to the land of Zzzzz's" boring.
Remember, we are playing a game where each player takes on the role of an ancient, powerful, vampiric overlord. Wheeling and dealing should be seen as not only allowed, but encouraged. This is a social game so we should embrace the social aspect of it as much as possible.
Deals in Blacktown/Castle Hill have usually been all about the detail. We'll stick to the deal, just be careful there isn't a huge loophole in the deal or we'll take that if it suits us better.
ReplyDeleteSome of the more infamous deals made involved promising not to bleed, then voting your prey off the table. Promising not to get a vampire out of torpor, then diablerising. You get the gist. Be careful what you wish for.
Generally, we'll uphold the terms of the deal. They are rarely "Let me get my prey and I'll roll over". They do tend to be concrete: If I do X, I want you to do Y by Z. Favours are rarely offered...
Table talk is certainly 100% important - we do a lot of that all right.
ReplyDeleteI'm just not used to playing with muppets that want me to do something and get all annoyed and carry on and on when I don't do it. Like I know how to play this game and yeah, your deck sucks and you can't oust your prey because +1 intercept is a problem for you and they have Carna out. I can see that; I merely don't care :)
Perhaps the lesson is not to play league games on JOL!
The Brissie group is the same as yours, Simon. Cross table works together while it helps, you remind your crosstable buddy to rescue you, etc, etc.
ReplyDeleteI think playing with the same people time and time again in a small group can lead to a kind of hubris where you know how someone will play, so making crazy "save me" and "oust my prey for me" kind of deals are far less likely to occur.
Its the bigger tournaments where the different groups come together that I really enjoy. The unknowns of how a certain player will act or react make for more interesting games.
The Townsville group is still coming to terms with deal making and how best to utilise it. It's far more common to see someone try and make a deal that is rather specific (I won't bleed you next turn, only to do vote damage or go into combat with them instead) and then have the person on the receiving end turn around and attack them out of spite. Meanwhile their prey is happy that the attention is no longer on them. We have a long way to go.
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